söndag 19 juni 2011

VBT Puch 16mei2011

16 kommentarer:

Richard sa...

Cool, thats my puch haha

simon_syndaren sa...

I love that Puch....Can you tell me more about it?pictures and so? It is a real nice machine you got Richard

Richard sa...

its made for 150m dragrace .. we have special moped-sprints in Holland, at first I build an engine with 74cc Metrakit, but when I got overtaken by a 74cc Eurokit.. I decided to make some changes, year after that I made an engine with a 74cc Polini LC from an aprilia af1 futura .. did 9.4seconds over 150meters but that wasnt enough, the engine shown in the video is a rebuild e50, fitted an Honda mbx80 cilinder on it (48mm Gilardoni) crank from a puch DMP, driveshaft is from a Zundapp (bulletproof) Selfmade clutch, Hpi2004 ignition, 28mm stage6 r/t carburettor and last but not least; specially calculated en home made exhaust, the engines has about 22 HP now,but I keep breaking clutches.. when I fix that I hope to reach a 7.9seconds @ 150meters.

I saw you have an account on puchforum, just check out the thread for photo's;

http://puchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14576&start=0

Some photo's (just click on the link)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5603/puch038.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2517/puch052.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2962/puch056.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6821/dsc0762j.jpg

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/733/dsc0752yx.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1193/dsc0750u.jpg

oops;
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3125/sdc13091.jpg

little video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReDsphxZakk

(against a tuned Gilardoni 74cc)

simon_syndaren sa...

Thank you for your serious and good answer! I have some questions ... What cylinder would you buy if you were me (liquid cooled) How thick spacer plate mount on it? turning off the cylinder? or both cylinder head and cylinder? Do you drive with DMP racing crankshaft as it is? Does it better than Rito? that's 16mm large end of the DMP? Is it possible to weld in the engine (good material) Do you use the old E-50 with four ball bearings or the newer 3-ball? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to collect as much information as possible before I start .... with my liquid cooled sprint Maxi:)

Richard sa...

You should use a Metrakit prorace 2 from a minarelli horizontal engine (scooter) the inside head of the cilinderhead falls into the cylinder, you have to machine that flat so it doesnt fall into the cylinder anymore, that way you have a fast scootercylinder, with a 43mm stroke!

the engine cases need to be welded though, to fit the new studs and huge portings haha, you also need an intake @ the top engine case.

The crank I use is partly DMP .. i chose that one for its 16mm big-end and the crankshaft from a zundapp has that too (perfect fit!) the only difference is; the zundapp crankshaft is stronger, has a silvertype needle bearing in the bigend (brand; torrington) and the biggest difference; 91mm long instead of 90mm, you need to work that out when u fit the cylinder.

here's a picture of a prorace puch engine;

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2181/10202552/18416756/313520070.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/dxjts7.jpg


and to answer your other question, I always use a 4-ball engine

simon_syndaren sa...

Is it 12mm piston pin for Minarelli engines (thought it was 10mm) or are there other pistons to their worse crankshafts! I begin to understand how you've done now:) If you have a lot of pictures during the construction of the engine, feel free to email them to me (simon_syndaren@hotmail.com) But my questions is unfortunately not the end:) I'm really curious about a good connection. What do you use for the water pump? Battery? and an electric pump? Is Metrakit Pro Race 2 was the best ram? There are lots of Malossi, Hebo, Polini, Stage 6, Athena and so on ... Are also on the height of the cylinder base, weld you and sizzles away excess so plane is the same height as the original E-50 engine
I think it's hard to explain in English .... shame you do not speak Swedish:)
Thank you my friend .... I appreciate all the advice for my sprint project.
In Sweden, there are no built extreme based on Puch Maxi ....( here think they just about Puch VZ 3 or 4 speed transmission, Zündapp, Gilera, Sachs 2,3,4,5,6 växlade.Givetvis all Japanese mopeds and scooter (racing) But Puch Maxi .... no no ... haha.
Just me and a few other guys who builds racing Maxi's.
I have four pieces and I think it's a perfect bike.
But in Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Denmark, the interest so huge it seems that ...

A question! Do you use just rod (DRIJFSTANGSET) from Zündapp and the remainder from DMP puch crankshaft? I am a bit worried that that red plastic or whatever it is to be detached from the crankshaft (DMP only have it on its crankshaft)
Best Regards Simon

simon_syndaren sa...

I'm really curious about a good connection.I mean clutch....

Richard sa...

well I saw you used a MK performance clutch.. throw that thing far and far away! it will break, it will bend, and it won't last long.

You should use a stock 3-shoe clutch, with thicker springs (minibike springs will do fine) to reinforce the clutch, you have to mount a plate on top of the clutch, I'll sent you the topic-link for a good working clutch (easy to make)

http://puchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10991&start=0

minibike springs vs. original blue springs;

http://www.zelfbouwbikes.nl/uploads/images/Gallery/Minibike%20Antonie_W/Koppeling/Afbeelding_075_%28Medium%29.jpg


About cylinders;

The Metrakit Prorace 2 is so ideal, because the head falls into the cylinder, with a Manston/Evo or speed 7t is doesnt, the distance between top of the cylinder to underside of the ports must be 43mm, with a manston or so, that is 39mm (scooter stroke) with a prorace it is 43mm! so if you make the head so, that it doesnt fall into the cylinder anymore, you will have a 43mm stroke cylinder :) the piston has an 12mm rod connection, the only difference is the rod/crankshaft length! scooter is 85mm and puch 90 (with zundapp rod 91mm)

Just mill out the cases to fit the cylinder, assemble the crankshaft, mount the cylinder and messure how far the piston sticks out of the top of the cylinder, if that is 6mm , you will need a 6mm plate under you cylinder :) easy as that !

And its more a shame that I don't speak swedish, even though I've lived there for 3 months haha

simon_syndaren sa...

Well, you've been living in Sweden? What did you think of that? Now I am with you how everything works and I understand why Metrakit prorace II is perfect.
What a good link with the clutch! I've been driving with JPS HK (Jarno puch shop.nl) Have never tried MK performances clutch.But translate this link and you will understand why I do not intend to try :)http://puchmaxituning.blogspot.com/2011/06/mk-performance -clutch.html Glad you said the same thing as the guy who emailed me said.

Richard sa...

haha, in the 3 months I was there, I saw a lot of beautifull girls.. But could'nt understand a word they were saying :') But I like the country! I'm sure going to return back someday, just for a week or so

simon_syndaren sa...

Ha, ha beautiful girls there are lots of here, but certainly in Holland! I sat and looked for where I can find a MK Pro Race 2 cylinder, you have some good company (preferably in the Netherlands) where I can buy! I also found a cylinder (Derbi) with 43mm stroke, look at the link and translate the text.
http://www.twostroke.se/product.asp?product=19479
Should the cylinder is going to use? I was going to buy me some parts, so parts are when I start bygga.Vart can I find water pump 12v?

Richard sa...

You should use a Bosch waterpump, from an old mercedes 190D (or so) not the main waterpump, but for the heater! is 12volts and with a little 12v battery, you can drive for 1.5hour without recharching the battery .. thats more than enough because with a fast engine, the tank will be empty within 1.5 hours I think ( my sprinter does 10 kilometers with 2.5 liters) :P

The derbi cylinder looks allright, just one crucial thing.. the cooling! You will need a cooling channel trough the engine with this cylinder, but.. if you use the minarelli cylinder, you can attach the cooling-hose to the side of the cylinder :) This the most reliable webshop who delivers the prorace in the netherlands;

http://www.josdijkman.nl/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2294

also, I mentioned the bosch pump earlier, but there's a new motoforce pump based on the bosch pump, but the motoforce pump is lighter and (people say) it uses less power then the bosch;

http://www.scootparts.nl/Waterpomp-Motoforce-universeel-12V-Koeling-waterpomp-bestekoop-MF92101/nl/product/68160/

Richard sa...

edit; Josdijkman.nl also ships to sweden :)

simon_syndaren sa...

Hello! perfect, will buy the water pump, cylinder from Holland.Do you have some great tips on membrane / reed valve?I have a Mikuni TM 24mm (genuine Mikuni) and a 24mm PWK D-slide (nice copy, it says Keihin, but it was too cheap to be true)Or do you think I need a bigger carburetor?You have really been a great help, you should have a huge thanks for that.

I have some more questions, hope you find it ok:)
What to invest in the cooler ... All I want is just like your building to make it neat and with a great feature.
Scooter cooler looks so spread out, maybe a motocross or Reiju, Derbi Senda cooler would work well?
One last question! I look at many images that several have very thick spacer plates between the cylinder and crankcase.Do they milling a bit to the crunkcase so it's more material for the transfers? Do you understand me?Good thing you were thinking that about the cooling of the cylinder, I found this, thought I found the perfect cylinder with a 43mm stroke

Richard sa...

To make the huge ports flow nicely into the cases and fit the cylinder studs, you will need to weld, or like most people do; mill the cases down, fit 2 aluminum plates to the cases (one for top, one for bottom offcourse) then mill the cases out so the cylinder fits in, make sure its horizontal and drill holes for the studs, after that you grab a bottom gasket and draw everything you have to mill out, that way you keep both sides perfect.

then you need to make a inlet on the top engine case, take a piece of aluminum, what fits the membrane (best is if you take a piaggio stage6 v-force) when you got that right, mill out a hole in the top engine case (close to the cylinder!) and weld it. mill out all the welds and make a good flow :)

one other thing; a 24mm will do just fine, but for the serious stuff, you should look for a 28mm, runs mutch better :) .. about the cooler(radiator) .. derbi senda cooles good, I have one from a piaggio Zip.. also does the trick, my engine doesn't get warmer than 60 degrees celcius :)

simon_syndaren sa...

Hello!
Zet ik wat foto's van uw wrede Puch Maxi op mijn blog!Veel mensen in Zweden hebben nog nooit iets gezien zo cool.Vertelde me in de winter zal een vloeistofgekoelde Maxi bouwen.
Ik hoop dat je goed bent

Bedankt voor de hulp!!

Best Regards:)